[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Creative Architects by Castos. I am your host, Angela Hollowell, and this is a podcast about the future of the creator economy. Today, I'm joined by Justin Moore, who is the founder of Creator Wizard.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Let's have you make some exclusive content that only people on the email list are going to get right. And so very easily within the span of I'm not even joking, Angela, like two weeks, we got 30,000 people on our email list.
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[00:00:42] Speaker A: Top people in that field.
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[00:01:16] Speaker A: I mentioned that you started Creator Wizard, but this wasn't really your first foray into helping people find and negotiate sponsorships. You had an influencer marketing company that you ran. I believe you ran it with your wife. Is that correct?
[00:01:31] Speaker B: So, no, I actually primarily ran it, but definitely started it and learned everything about the influencer space from having channels personally ourselves.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Tell me a little bit about going from being kind of a solo creator, which a lot of us start off as, and then going to say, hey, I see a gap in the market. I can help influence that gap through working with other influencers and developing user generated content, all those types of things with your own company.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: I think if you've been a creator for a little while, especially if you've been a creator who has experienced some level of success, there's this moment where everything seems to be going really well, and you're like, man, if I could just make $5,000 a month or $10,000 a month forever, this would be amazing.
I could get used to this, this type of idea. I'll never have to get a real job again. This type of idea. And we very much had that moment, I think at the height of our YouTube viewership way back in the day, in the kind of 2014 2015 time frame, I distinctly remember we had one month where just on AdSense, we made $25,000. And I remember I got that email and I showed it to my wife, and I was like, we just made $25,000 just on YouTube AdSense. And we were like, I remember we were in Forever 21. We both stopped and looked at each other like, what the heck, right? Because I think previous to that. The most we'd ever made was like 15K or something. But it was very much this moment where it was like, is this possible? Could we continue to make this? And so we entered into this phase of thinking like, okay, everything is going well now, but this can't continue forever. We very much were skeptical that whether we were, like, one algorithm change away or we get demonetized, or people aren't as interested in watching us, or we can't command the amount of money on sponsorship rates that we are, currently, we just had this sense that while we have the tiger by the tail, so to speak, we should figure out other ways in which we can diversify our income. And so the most obvious one to me at that time was like we had by that point done hundreds a lot of sponsorships. Personally as creators and I have a background in medical devices, I was actually a product manager and I had a ton of experience liaising with different departments and customers. And this was kind of my professional skill set. And I thought to myself, I feel like I could do this process of working with sponsors for other creators. I could not be their manager, but essentially my customer would be the brands and the larger agencies who still don't really kind of understand influencer marketing. And remember, this was like 2015, 2016 time frame or it was still pretty early. And so this was the pitch basically it was like a went to the brands that we had just finished deals with and say, hey, it was an awesome deal we just did with you. Did you also know that I have access to all these other awesome creators that you could collaborate with as well? And it was as simple as that. I did obviously prior to making that pitch, go and get approval from all of our basically friends on YouTube to say, hey, can we put you in a deck and say that you're kind of like on our roster and go out and try and get you business right? And they were like, sure, you want to pay me money? Sure. Type idea, right? And so that was the business model. It was essentially being the project manager, the liaison between these larger advertisers and other creators. And so we basically took a percentage for the campaign management. But that was how I got this experience of being a creator personally, kind of in the trenches doing all these deals, but also seeing the other side of it, of what it actually takes to spend $500,000 or a million dollars on an influencer campaign.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And those are not small numbers and it's not an easy service to do because you're still essentially playing matchmaker number one. Then two, hoping the match works out, but also doing your best to ensure the match works out. So you're not even like a passive like, hey you guys meet I'm going to walk away. Like, once the deal is done, it's like, hey, I need to make sure that this deal and campaign went to fruition, make sure everybody's paid on the back end, and make sure this creator knows how to communicate the success of this campaign so we can continue to get them more deals. I find it interesting in your journey that you guys started on YouTube. You specifically started on YouTube and then you said, hold on, let me focus on email marketing for a second. And then your email marketing has catapulted Creator Wizard to heights that your YouTube channel even couldn't. And it wasn't that your YouTube channel was doing bad. It was just, hmm, let me focus on actually getting these people off this platform, probably in the same mindset as you were when you were like, let me diversify income because YouTube, I don't own this platform. So talk to me a little bit about how you've kind of doubled down on writing and growing the Creator Wizard community through email.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: One of the reasons that I took a newsletter and an email list so seriously when I started educating creators around sponsorship strategy through Creator Wizard was that we had this experience early on of creating an email list way back in the day. So kind of as I mentioned, we were at kind of the height of our YouTube heyday. A company had approached us and this was way before paid memberships courses and all this stuff too. And they were kind of bleeding edge, like, leading the charge on these types of unique business ideas. They basically convinced us, like, man, you guys have such an engaged audience. Let us help you design a membership community around relationship advice. Because that was like, what we were known for back in the day, was we would give relationship advice and all this stuff. And so we got really excited about it because it was like, you start doing the numbers like, oh, it's only $20 a month, and this many people sign up and like, wow, that's amazing. This is what we got intoxicated with the numbers that they were throwing around, right? And so as part of this strategy real quickly, ultimately it failed. By the way, I just want to preempt this by it didn't work. We had to shut it down. Didn't work. But as part of this process of launching it, we made an email list, right? And so they said, email is going to be a big part of this, and so let's have you make some exclusive content that only people on the email list are going to get. And so very easily, within the span of I'm not even joking, Angela, like two weeks, we got 30,000 people on our email list. And it was nuts, right? Because it was just like, I can't even remember what the exclusive piece of content was, but it was really good and people wanted it right? And so we nurtured that list for a little bit, but then we kind of abandoned it because it was like, well, we don't really have anything now that we're not doing this community or membership, we don't really have a reason to kind of continue to email these people. And so we let that list languish for five, six years. We didn't send them anything. And so when we ultimately decided, like, oh, okay, maybe we should take this a little bit more seriously and start emailing this list again, we ran what's called a reengagement campaign, where we sent them an email and said, hey, you haven't heard from us in five years. Do you still want to hear from us? Right click here. So you have to opt in to be able to stay on our list. And of the 30,000 people that we sent that to, only 1000 opted back in. That was a real sobering moment for us because it was like, imagine if we would have nurtured this over the last five years. Not only what would 30,000 be now, but like, all these other amazing relationships that we could have developed, whether maybe we could have sold products directly, maybe we could have upsold that with our sponsors. So it really was a very critical moment that led me to realize, like, okay, I am not going to make that same mistake.
When I started Creator Wizard, I was like, I'm going to take it seriously from day one. And in reality, if you go back and look at every piece of content that I've made since I started in 2020, you look at my YouTube videos, you look at my tweets, you look at my Instagram posts, everything drives to the newsletter. When it's a call to action, it's go sign up for my newsletter. And that was very intentional because I knew that down the line, having this direct connection is going to be a game changer with some of these products that I ultimately envision myself offering down the line.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think that's the key. I mean, obviously you can do that with YouTube, but YouTube is also a public.
Maybe now YouTube has kind of caught up a little bit in terms of memberships and things like that. But know, if YouTube goes down, so does all of that work that you just did versus your email platform. Like, you like, you will own that for as long as people want to be on it. And so now you're in the process of kind of rebuilding that in your own way for Creator Wizard and keeping it engaged. So totally understand switching gears a little bit to Creator Wizard. I've seen your YouTube videos. You are a very dynamic, engaging, kind of, like, in your face personality. Right? And I think that when people start creating and think about, well, if I want my platform to be leveraged and monetized via sponsorships, I also have to replicate this Justin Moore Peter McKinnon type energy, right?
I have to go 100% all the time, have to be making faces. I have to have a noise reaction that is my own.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: You got to have something, right?
[00:10:35] Speaker A: But that's honestly just like, not the case, right? That is not everybody's personality and that's not the only way to allow people to see your personality and experience who you are. And I guess ultimately to build trust with you. Trust enough to try a product that you recommend. So when people come to you and they say, well, I have a big following, but maybe I haven't felt confident reaching out to brands because I don't know if I will fit the ideal creator that they're looking for the internet personality that they're looking for. What is some of the advice that you have for them?
[00:11:08] Speaker B: So I want to first address the kind of in your face personality idea because if you go back and watch some of our very, very early videos, I was not like this at all. I very much kind of had this I felt like I needed to have this kind of polished personality and just like, I need to talk very proper and I need to be like this and I need to always make sure my hair is done properly. And that was very much like early days. If you go back and watch some of our earlier videos, that was how I was. And two things. Number one, the way I am on camera right now in my videos and in my podcast and all this stuff, this is really me. If you were to come interact with me at my house or go have fun, I am constantly cracking jokes, like every 2 seconds. That is just my personality. And what I ultimately learned over many years of making content was that you just have to be yourself. And if yourself is funny and weird and I'm sure my in your face personality turns off a lot of people. And that's to my detriment for those people. But there's also a lot of people who really are attracted to that, who gravitate to the fact that I'm weird and kooky and I make crazy jokes and use weird gifts and I have a soundboard. I'm sure there's a lot of people who was like, this guy's not serious, right? But there's a lot of people who it's like they really like that. And so I think one of the major takeaways is like, regardless of how you are, maybe you're more subdued, you're more professional, maybe you're fun and crazy and you crack jokes all the time. You just have to be you because any other way, people are going to see through it or it's not going to feel genuine. And so if you ever needed permission from anyone to just be yourself on the internet, whether it's a podcast, whether it's YouTube, whatever it is, be yourself humans want to connect with humans. So that's number one. The second thing is your question is know feeling imposter syndrome or feeling concerned that when you reach out to a brand that you may not be kind of the archetype or the persona of the type of creator that maybe they've typically partnered with in the past or you're not the kind of person making the crazy YouTube thumbnail face or whatever. That's what you'd expect, right? And I think the biggest piece of advice there is that never, ever make assumptions when it comes to interacting with brands. Because I think that this is what holds a lot of people back is they think, oh, well. They're never going to want to work with me because I only have 1000 or 5000 followers or they're never going to want to work with me because I don't get this many average views or downloads on my podcast or they're never going to. It's just like this repeated list of impostor syndrome symptoms. And what you'll be very surprised to learn when you do start interacting with brands is that they don't have it all figured out. They don't have really a firm understanding of what works well on social media oftentimes either. They've never really worked with a lot of creators and if they have worked with creators, sometimes it hasn't been that great of experience. So if you're someone who is professional, who is communicative, who understands that this is a business relationship, when you work with a brand, right there you're way far beyond what most creators can say when it comes to working with brands. And so I think this is like a really important mindset shift for most people is that just don't make any assumptions when it comes to working with brands and let the brand be the one to tell you like, oh no, you're not a good fit for us. Don't dismiss yourself from the running before you even start.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. I mean, sometimes we can self select and this is in general, whether it's a client, whether it's a sponsorship or a brand deal, sometimes we'll say, oh, I've seen they've worked with so and so, I'm not as big as them or I'm not as blah as them. Whatever we tell ourselves, that makes us feel like we shouldn't go after an opportunity.
So for you, for one thing, in terms of opportunities, your opportunity list is long. And some of those emails I'm like, good grief, this could have been an essay.
When it comes to also being like using discernment and seeing and going after brands, a lot of that does come with time and it comes with developing your taste and understanding who you are. But it also kind of comes from mentorship and learning from other people and what they have experienced in working with brands and things like that. So when it comes to you sharing your experience, you have in some ways productized that as well. In terms of a one on one session, what are some of the common findings you have seen in the people who are willing to pay for a higher level of mentorship?
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question. One thing I always like to ask at the end of my coaching calls is what were some of the big takeaways for you at the end of this call? Basically? And I think I always find that that's a really good way for people to distill in their own heads. Like, okay, I came into this hoping for a certain outcome and let me check to see if I accomplished what I was hoping to. Right? And there's some really interesting real time learning that happens when I think when I ask that question to people. And one of my most recent public coaching calls, I asked this question to them and they know I knew that I could probably find out the answer to my question by watching your entire YouTube catalog. Like, I could go back, I could watch all these different videos and I could go from here and look at there and all this stuff too. But I don't have time for that. I just wanted to pay you for the shortcut. Tell me exactly what I need to know, where I need to go, where do I find this resource? And that's what I paid for. And I think a lot of times people struggle with this idea of like, what do I give away for free and what do I charge for? Like, what do I paywall or what do I gate or this type of thing. And oftentimes you'll find that some people simply at the end of the day, they just want a shortcut. People are busy, and if you can take them from point A to point B as quickly as possible, that's hugely, hugely valuable. Which is why, honestly, candidly, Angela, I give away the vast majority of everything for free. Like, you'll see, I'm giving away these public coaching calls. I'm showing exactly what my brand deal pricing calculator looks like, all my methods and my tactics and all this stuff. A lot of the stuff I teach in my courses and all that stuff too, I give away for free. Because I don't care if 99% of people never, ever pay me a dime, truly, at the end of the day, because there's always going to be people who need more detailed support, who will be more than happy to invest in that. And so I think it's like having this default disposition that I'm going to give away everything information wants to be free. That's what I believe. And if you need more support, one on one support for me or my team or whatever, here's the way to do that. You can purchase it here kind of idea.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: I like that because, I mean, as a creator, I think about that too. I'm largely client focused right now. And I'm creating online, yes, but haven't really dived headfirst into brand deals and sponsorships. And when I think about, well, what is something worth to someone else? Right? The main thing is it saves me time. First of all, that's a big one, because you're either going to spend money or time or both. So why not get your money's worth? And that's just the long and short of that. You mentioned something kind of critical at the end there, which is like, if they need support from you or your team. So in a way, when we hire people, we hire them to buy our time back. We hire them so that we don't have to spend time on things that one would take us more time to do, because it's just not our area of genius and area of expertise. So talk to me a little bit about how you went about building a team for Creator Wizard.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah, so it was just me for a long time. Probably don't have time to go into this in detail, but my agency, it was going great for a really long time, but it actually crashed and burned right when the pandemic started. I have a whole video on my YouTube channel about that. It was super traumatizing. Lost a bunch of clients, had to lay off my employees. It was like one of the lowest points of my life. And actually the ashes of that failure is why I started Creator Wizard. But I have a lot of still have a lot of trauma from that experience. Because at the height, I think our payroll was about fifty k a month with my employees, my full time employees and all that stuff too. So not for the faint of heart in terms of being a business owner. And so I was very conscious of that and very careful growing Creator Wizard. I was like, all right, okay, this is going to be like a solo thing for a while, like maybe freelancers or how an editor and all this stuff too. But I'm not going to incur a bunch of ongoing costs like building a big team and all this stuff too. So I was very clear about that from the beginning. But as the business has grown, as my revenue has grown, I've made kind of modest steps towards growing the team. And so the first major thing that I did was I had this amazing woman named Dee who was an early student of one of my cohorts, actually. I had known her kind of not anecdotally she had watched my wife and I on our YouTube channels for a really long time. And so she had been in that community, but she was making a concerted effort to being a creator herself. And so she decided to participate in the program. And she was a superstar. I mean, she honestly did every homework assignment. She just took it really seriously. And saw amazing results to the point where other students started going to her for advice. Let me go ask Dee this, because she was like amazing, right? And so that happened enough times that I was like, you know what, I think I should probably just hire Dee. And so I kind of broached this idea with her. I was like, hey, initially it was like, hey, will you maybe be interested in doing some office hours? Because you're amazing. People talk to you, they get so inspired, like all this stuff. And so she was like, heck yeah. So she was super excited. So she started running my office hours so I would do my courses and then she would be the one, I wouldn't even be there, she would be the one to do the office hours. And so that was the first step. Then I found myself started turning to her more and more for decisions about the business. Like, hey, I'm thinking about increasing the price of the course, or I'm thinking about making this change, or I'm thinking about changing the newsletter in this way. And so I started going to her because it was like super valuable to just have someone to turn to and be like, what do you think? Is this a stupid idea? Should I do this right? And so it just more and more it started happening more and more. And then honestly, as of about a month ago a month and a half ago, actually, sorry, let me rewind. So she was the first kind of freelance hire. She was working with her for about now it's almost two years, but then about year and a half ago brought on a VA. So it was the first time I'd ever had a virtual assistant ever. And I've been on YouTube for 15 years. And so brought on a VA, then a video editor. These are all freelancers graphic design, freelance help.
Then I brought on a writer, a script writer on a freelance basis to help me with some of the newsletter stuff. And here and there one off projects like hiring people to help me with newsletter strategy or YouTube support, like all this stuff. So hiring experts in different areas. But then about a month and a half ago made the really big decision to promote Dee to basically be my number two. So she is now the director of Operations and community. And so she's kind of running the day to day of the business now. And so this decision was something I thought long and hard of. Because if I look at all of the things that really drive the largest outcomes for my business, oftentimes it's what's my zone of genius? Content and thought leadership. Writing, speaking, going to conferences, being on podcasts like your lovely podcast, Angela, doing these things that I feel like this is what I was born to do. I'm really good at distilling these complex thoughts into videos. Articles, et cetera. And so I was like, what can I do to just spend all my time on that? Because that is what is going to be the things to move the business forward. And so all these other things that are happening in terms of the newsletter, all the sponsors we have, and logistics, and I have 32,000 creators on my email list now. I'm getting hundreds of emails a day.
All of these things require bodies, right? And help and administrative support and all this stuff, too. And so I need to just figure out a way in which I can not do those things anymore and focus on this thing that really moves the business forward. And so we're very early into this big shift in the company. But I'm really excited because I didn't release a video on my YouTube channel, my Creator Wizard YouTube channel, for a couple months. And then now, since then, since this shift, I think I've released like five or six. So it's like I'm really feeling the creative juices flowing again, which I'm really excited about.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Yes, I think that's a great note to end on for people who are watching. Definitely go check out Justin's YouTube. Follow him on Twitter. He's always dropping gems, and if you're open to it, subscribe to his newsletter. Justin, thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Angela.
[00:23:32] Speaker C: That's all for this episode. If you enjoyed it, please give us a five star review on your listening app, like this video. If you're tuning in on YouTube and subscribe for more episodes, in the next episode of Creative Architecture by Castos, I'll be talking with Rand Fischkin, the founder of Spark Turo, and you won't want to miss it. I'll catch you in the next episode.
