Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hey everyone, this is Creative Architects by Casto, and this is a podcast about the future of the Creator economy. My name is Angela Hollowell and I am your host today. And I am joined by Tania Estrada, who is one of the co-founders of bipo Podcast Creators, which is an incredible community and resource for creators of color.
Speaker 2 00:00:26 You know, I have an uncle, he loves to say, one of his favorite quotes is, your network determines your net worth <laugh>. And so, and I, so I feel like we try to encompass that. We try to embody that.
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[email protected] or by clinking on the link in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in. It means a lot. Enjoy the show. So, for people who are new here and really interested in learning about, you know, starting their own creative community, can you talk to me a little bit about why you and Maria decided to co-found bipo podcast creators?
Speaker 2 00:01:45 Because we, we wanted support for ourselves really, is what it came down to. You know, we had been in, in other Facebook communities, other communities that were, you know, supporting podcasters. And I think the most notable one at the time in, in 2019 when Maribell and I came together was women of color podcasters. And we both really loved that community. We were very active in that community, and then they decided to move off of Facebook, which made a lot of sense for them, and I totally get why they did that, but it left those of us that weren't gonna move over to the, the new app or, or whatever. It just left a empty space for us and we were like, wow, we really loved this community so much and it doesn't exist in this space anymore, so what do we do? And Maribell initially, and I initially thought, well, you know, maybe we'll start another Facebook community and if it goes well, maybe we'll have, you know, up to 200 people join it and we'll have that, that little niche on the internet for us again. And that was sort of as, as big as the vision was initially <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:03:00 And we started the, the Facebook community again, thinking that in its totality it might have 200 people join it. Uh, I think in the first two weeks we had 200 people and very quickly we, we were being asked for things, you know, they, they were like, so like, this is great. Awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. So, uh, what are you gonna do next? <laugh>? It was like, you know, we need networking and we need this and we need that. And we were, and we said, oh, okay. We accepted that challenge. And so it, it grew very organically all on its own in the beginning. Uh, and that's how we got here. It's only been very recently that we started to do a little bit of marketing, which is, has gone well considering how little time we put into it <laugh>. So,
Speaker 2 00:03:52 And, and so now we have this community that's about networking and access above, above all else is, um, we've really tried to carve out something with Bipo podcast creators that some of the other communities aren't already doing. You know, you have to niche down and you have to really figure out what is it that you community can benefit from? What are they really engaged with? What do they really respond to? And what we've found with our community is they love the networking things that we put together, and they always want more of that, and they want access to people that they normally wouldn't have access to in the space. So I think we've been pretty successful about bringing people and connecting our community to folks that are known voices, known leaders in the space, and figuring out ways for them to be supportive of this group of people.
Speaker 0 00:04:48 Yeah. So a couple of things. I'm hearing one, you're still on Facebook, which is wild to me because it feels
Speaker 2 00:04:55 Like it's wild to us. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:04:56 <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:05:00 Oh man. Facebook just in my mind, feels so antiquated at this point. It just feels like it's hard to curate a community that stays on target, <laugh>. It's
Speaker 2 00:05:12 True, it's true. All of these things are true. But as, as clunky and as cumbersome as Facebook is, it is extremely difficult to pry it out of people's hands. <laugh>, like,
Speaker 3 00:05:27 There,
Speaker 2 00:05:28 It, it's just one of those things that it's so ubiquitous, right? Everybody knows what Facebook is. It's on everybody's phone, whether they use it or not, it's so easy for them to access. So we have, I I suppose at this stage, chosen the path of least resistance. At least for the meantime, we are trying to figure out how do we get folks off of Facebook?
Speaker 0 00:05:56 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:05:57 It's, it's harder than one would think <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:06:01 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:06:02 So, you know, we, we are, I, I think any anybody that is running a community and has space on Facebook to run that community has the same challenges that we do. And we are all always thinking about what does the world look like without Facebook <laugh>? And try probably very slowly trying to move in that direction. I personally hope to see us off Facebook in the near future. We'll see what happens with that in the end, you know, it comes down to what is the community willing to do.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 Yeah. Yeah. And I think like too, like you were saying, like if your main purpose is networking and access, right? You want that to be the mainstay even if you do move. And for people who are in the group now and who have benefited heavily, talk to me a little bit about some of the ways that you provide ways for people to meet and connect.
Speaker 2 00:06:59 Yeah, so we do virtual and in-person get togethers. So, you know, we started in in the pandemic, so everything was a virtual. And we have that. We've actually found that that works really well for us, uh, since we have folks from really all over the planet at this stage, you know, so we have some folks that are in like Ghana, some people are in London, <laugh>, Ireland, Spain, Mexico, you know, so virtual works really well. And, and what folks really love is that opportunity to meet other creators who are similar to them, who have the same challenges of them, who have similar visions to what they're trying to create. And, and we really try to target those creators who are in the middle of the road. So we are not the 1 0 1 group. We don't do anything around like, this is how you start a podcast.
Speaker 2 00:07:56 This is your how, how an r s s feed works. We don't do that stuff. There's plenty of opportunities to find that information already out there. We don't feel like we do that well. So we, we don't attempt to, um, we are more for that creator who already has some time under their belts. You know, maybe they've done their first 10 episodes or more, and they have already made the decision that I wanna be in podcasting. I want to build something here. Now what they wanna build is, is, you know, across the board, sometimes they are a hobby podcaster and they just wanna build a really great podcast that they love, that they can have conversations with their friends. More often than not, we see podcasters who maybe started out as a hobbyist, but have said, okay, now I want to learn all the things podcasting, and I wanna get to the next level, and I really want to build some kind of legacy here.
Speaker 2 00:08:52 So they're building brands, they're business owners, right? They're, they're brand creators. And so those are the people that we really focus on who are in the middle. And once somebody makes that switch in their head from moved, they've moved beyond the 1 0 1 and they're really, they're ready to build something, they need people around them who are also doing that because they're gonna have a lot of the same challenges. So we found that that's, that's really what our creators in our community will continually show up for. And it's, it's not always to connect to people who are like, oh, you have this problem and I have this problem, so let's talk about that problem together. A lot of times it's just about, you know, blowing off some steam with somebody that just gets where you are on your journey. In, in, in that particular stage, that middle stage where you have, you're not the beginner anymore.
Speaker 2 00:09:48 <laugh>, right? Maybe not quite an expert, but you're getting, getting there. So in, in that middle space and being able to just build that community support around you, be able to network. And what we see happening in our community all the time is, is creators coming together and creating new things. You know, last year we had a couple of creators that came that met at one of our networking events. They went off and created a whole new show, and it's now an award-winning podcast. So we see lots of examples of things like that happening, <laugh>, and, you know, so much happens like, you know, I have an uncle, he loves to say, one of his favorite quotes is, your network determines your net worth <laugh>. And so, and I, so I feel like we try to encompass that. We try to embody that in our networking. It's really about bringing people together, providing them with an opportunity to connect and just have a good time and blow off a little steam, and then their creatives by nature. And that creativity starts to flow and we see really fun things happening.
Speaker 0 00:10:50 I personally did not realize that you had people from outside of the US in this group, but I think that speaks to just sometimes how limited our thinking can be when we think about the meaning of every letter in Bipo and really constraining that to the US and not realizing that there is a whole world out there of people who also identify with these groups who are, you know, in Spain and Africa, the continent of Africa. Not just that, but you know, south America, things like that, who really are like, no, I'm also a creator and I'm also a person of color by these definition. And I also wanna connect with people who look like me, who maybe have a different perspective on life and who are doing the things that I wanna do in a different place in the world. Um, how have you kind of like, again, as you realize, like, okay, there's not just this one type of person in this group, you know, we really wanna create a space where everybody feels welcome, you know, how have you been able to successfully do that? You know, amid language barriers have been cultural differences and even things that bring people together. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:11:52 I mean, it's, it's been a challenge. We've had some early successes just by getting out and going to conferences and then being invited into other communities, um, you know, around the world. You know, we were, we were invited out last year for the, the first audio conference in Saudi Arabia, you know, so that, that's an opportunity just that we wouldn't have otherwise. And that comes from showing up and saying, Hey, we are here to serve. These are the people that we're trying to support. Um, so we've had some early successes like that, that have really helped open us up and bring people in for outside of the us. But it's a major challenge. It's <laugh> like on one hand I totally get why most people, or or you might think, oh, bipo is specifically, this is a, a US thing, right? So one of the challenges that, that we have to face is just the term bipo, right?
Speaker 2 00:12:51 That that's a very US western centric term. And even in the US there's no, there's no people walking around saying, I identify as bipo. Like, where do, where do I check the Bipo box? That's not a thing. We understood that when we selected that in for the name, because we were specifically talking to a, a group of people, right? So if you are part, if you are someone who is within one of the many nuanced bipo communities, then you kind of get it. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Um, with them. So that was a strategic choice that we made. We made that choice, understanding that nobody actually identifies that way, and that we had to figure out how we were going to be welcoming to people outside of the United States, because people outside of the US definitely don't use it. And so one of the challenges, uh, is, is just, so let's like talk about Africa, huge continent, right? All these different countries with different languages and different cultures, but if we're talking about African podcasters, they're black.
Speaker 2 00:14:04 They're all black, right? And, and that's, that's great. And the nuance comes from culture and language and, and other things like that. So how do we welcome those folks if they're interested in connecting with us? Well, for us, that comes through partnership and just showing up and supporting things like Afro pods, you know, meeting them at a conference and saying, how do we support you? And, and, and, you know, just through that support, some people coming in and going, oh, okay, yeah, I get what that is over there. I'm gonna join Bipo podcast creators. You know, same thing for other countries. It's a, there's no easy way. We're talking about people here. It's complicated. <laugh>. Yeah. Um, so our, our, I think for us it's about partnership and just in our messaging and our, our, our language, doing the best that we can to make it clear that we are here to serve in a support capacity for people of color all over the place. And so, and it's, it's working, right? We're growing. Um, but it's always going to be a challenge that we are going to have to figure out how to navigate. And we have talked about like, at some point, do we change the name <laugh> have, do we outgrow that name at some point? Maybe, maybe, I don't know yet.
Speaker 0 00:15:16 When people are thinking about, you know, like a community, a podcast network, anything like that, one of the biggest pieces of advice people have is, you know, find your niche, find your target audience, you know, and naming is a part of that, especially your name, which is directly like, I am speaking to these people, right? But inevitably, like when you start to narrow down your focus, you know, in a business, in anything like that, you know, you are saying no to other types of people, right? And that can cause conflict for people who may, even if maybe they don't identify with being bipo, they may see themselves in, you know, your community. They may say, well, I wanna be a part of this community. These are the type of people I wanna be around and connect with and network with and collaborate with. So how have you, if you have at all, received any messaging about like, well, why are you excluding certain people? And so how did you guys, and I guess a follow up question for that is like, how can people who also wanna like niche down and really speak to a specific audience gain confidence in, in knowing that there's gonna be some resistance there? Yeah, we've
Speaker 2 00:16:19 Had a little bit of resistance, but I have to say not very much. There's been pretty minimal pushback. There has been some, and I wouldn't say that we've had a lot of pushback from big groups or, you know, for anything like that. It's been individuals, you know, like, why can't I join this group? Well, we've made it pretty clear <laugh> that this is a group for black, indigenous, and people of color. There are multiple, probably hundreds of other podcasting groups out there that are for you, but everything isn't for you. Right? One way that, that we have dealt with that is, so the, the group itself, the online community that is for Bipo people exclusively, but anybody from out who's not part of a Bipo community is welcome to join our newsletter and receive updates and information from us. They can attend networking events, they can attend training events.
Speaker 2 00:17:23 Those things are open to the larger community. And we do in fact, get people from outside of our community that attend those things. Well, we have some, just some perks for people inside of our group that nobody outside of the group gets. So like, if we are running a discount, like an early bird discount on something, our community members, our creators get that first. They are first come, first serve, and then if we have extra seats, then we open it up to, to the larger community and say, Hey, this is open first comfort serve. And that's how we've navigated and it's worked really well for us. And, you know, we just are, I think what's helped is that we've been very direct and, and transparent with people. We are community for bipo creators in the podcasting space. That doesn't mean that we don't like you, that doesn't, it doesn't have anything to do with you. So you really shouldn't take it personally. This is just this, you're welcome to engage with us in these ways, in these specific ways or not. That's up to you too. And I think as if you are creating a business that way, you, you just have to not take it personally that everybody isn't gonna like you. And I think if you are transparent and you, you try to lead with heart and you communicate clearly to people and directly, then you mitigate a lot of that pushback
Speaker 2 00:18:51 Right out of the gate.
Speaker 0 00:18:54 Mic drop, absolutely. 10 outta 10 no notes. Um, <laugh>, <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:19:00 I mean, you can't, like, we just can't be for everybody. You can't meet everybody's needs. You can't cater to what everybody wants. There are literally hundreds of groups out there. If we are not the one for you, go to one of the other ones. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you.
Speaker 0 00:19:15 <laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. And I mean, you're not wrong. And I think sometimes again, like when we see something cool or we see something that's growing and we wanna be a part of that, you know, we can get like in our feelings like, well, why, why wasn't this made for me? But then not even stepping outside of ourselves to realize there's somebody else who's thinking finally something that's made for me. Right? Yeah, exactly. Um, so I, I think community in all its forums, community building, community growing, collective solidarity in terms of creating an inclusive environment for everybody involves a little bit of just self-awareness. Like 2% self-awareness of what has been afforded to you and, and what the people that are doing the work to create something special. So my last question that I think is a, a great note to end on here is kind of really about the strengths that you and Mari Bill brought to BiPAP podcast creators. 'cause like you said, you had already been in a group before, you liked it, but you obviously didn't start the group from scratch. Like you had an idea of what you wanted. And how did you guys come together and say, Hey, we have these things that we can put towards creating a community?
Speaker 2 00:20:27 Um, yeah, I mean, we brought our own strengths to the table, right? So for me, my background is in public relations, communications, marketing, branding, all of that. So I was able to put those skills to use right away. And Maribell as well, you know, she comes from production, so she does, she comes from tv, television and, uh, podcasting production. So she had a, such a deep, she has such a deep nuance understanding of just the industry itself and you know, what the needs are from a creator perspective, but also as a business perspective and, and how we could try to fill some of those gaps for folks within our community. So, um, we put our heads together and, you know, you know, you've really hit on something when right away it starts to grow even quicker than you thought. And so that's what happened for us.
Speaker 2 00:21:20 Um, and it was just, we just started where we were. You know, we didn't try to, we didn't come outta the gate and say, you know, we're gonna create this company and this company is gonna do this, and this company is gonna do that. We just knew that we could do this one small thing. So we did that one small thing, and it very quickly grew way faster than our expectations. And so that's how we knew we had really landed on something and we were talking about it in the right way. We were nailing the brand because it was just like, it was just flowing. So I, I guess that's how our skills came together, sort of <laugh> in a natural way. We both, you know, we both were in podcasting. We both know what it's like to build businesses and be creators at the same time and do all that. So I think that helped as well.
Speaker 0 00:22:14 Yeah, Sage advice from, from people who have been there and who are still there. So thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your wisdom and experience with me, and can't wait for everybody to check out BiPAP podcast creators.
Speaker 2 00:22:27 Thanks so much for having me, Angela.
Speaker 0 00:22:36 That's all for this episode. If you enjoyed it, please give us a five star review on your listening app, like this video if you're tuning in on YouTube and subscribe for more episodes. In the next episode of Creative Architects by CAOs, I'll be talking with Jeremy ins of Podcast Marketing Academy and you won't wanna miss it. I'll catch you in the next episode.
